The Threat of Modern Piracy- A Merged Thread

[Kirkhill]

I’m talking about removing the ability for them to get weapons…

I think you will hard pressed to do that in a world of ANFO, waxed paper airplanes, hobby jets and reprogrammable $10 chips destined for electrix toasters.

 

[Brad Sallows]

But would that effectively dissuade the operators and trigger pullers behind attacks, or would it just piss them off and motivate them to honour and retaliate for the martyrdoms with more attacks? This is a region very accustomed to being the moles in whack-a-mole.

Probably the latter. Cooler heads have probably thought about this, and tit-for-tat could be expensive. The "Soleimani Solution" has applications, just not everywhere. Still, it's not as if the stuff the Nobel Drone Assassin used to do (that I assume still happens) resulted in massive retaliation against important Americans.

 

[KevinB]

I think you will hard pressed to do that in a world of ANFO, waxed paper airplanes, hobby jets and reprogrammable $10 chips destined for electrix toasters.

Find that in a Trinity sized crater…

 

[Skysix]

 

[CountDC]

The problem is more than that. Sure you can lay waste to them, but that is a minor piece.

Iran is their benefactor, so all you are doing is buying a few months, and maybe only weeks till the next group of Houthi decide to follow in footsteps of the deceased.

Then what is Iran also doing…

The issue is that Iran doesn’t consider themselves to be a target — I wouldn’t recommend just striking the Houthi launch sites, but also Iranian missile and drone facilities — bomb them to glass, and send a very clear message.

Plus that will also decrease the attacks on Ukraine from the Iranian drones they sell to Russia.

Exactly. Note that I did not specify who they would or should hit only that they should steam roll in and destroy the military they target.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

To be honest two Iowa class BB's is exactly what is needed. Two tasks forces, one BB centric sails in close, the CV one stays further off. The BB takes out a coastal military site or two. Definitely gunboat diplomacy on a large scale.

 

[Halifax Tar]

To be honest two Iowa class BB's is exactly what is needed. Two tasks forces, one BB centric sails in close, the CV one stays further off. The BB takes out a coastal military site or two. Definitely gunboat diplomacy on a large scale.

Nothing says hello like 16 inch HE rounds.

There is still a place for big gun ships, they just aren't the focal point of a TG like they used to be.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Nothing says hello like 16 inch HE rounds.

There is still a place for big gun ships, they just aren't the focal point of a TG like they used to be.

The great thing about the old BB was their armour designs. They were built with the concept of battle damage. It's to late for the Iowa's. If you wanted a modern BB. Make a hull using armour design concepts from the Iowas and Vanguard and modern 11" guns. So far they are largest guns that used cased ammunition. That would assist in automation of the gun turrets. New power plants would reduce crews as well. Along with secondaries and short ranged missiles for AD. This all of course is day dreaming as no one will build it. At best we might get a Monitor.

 

[KevinB]

The great thing about the old BB was their armour designs. They were built with the concept of battle damage. It's to late for the Iowa's. If you wanted a modern BB. Make a hull using armour design concepts from the Iowas and Vanguard and modern 11" guns. So far they are largest guns that used cased ammunition. That would assist in automation of the gun turrets. New power plants would reduce crews as well. Along with secondaries and short ranged missiles for AD. This all of course is day dreaming as no one will build it. At best we might get a Monitor.

Go to a case-telescoping round.
Lighter and easier to automate. You could get a 16” or 20” gun out of that.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Go to a case-telescoping round.
Lighter and easier to automate. You could get a 16” or 20” gun out of that.

I like the cut of your jib.

 

[KevinB]

I like the cut of your jib.

While I’m pipe dreaming, it would be nice to see a Nuclear Powered Battleship.

Perhaps between the CGN Long Beach size of 15,500 tons but short of the size of the New Jersey at 60k, maybe 30k tons with 1k personnel.

6 20” guns in 3 dual turrets
Ass ton of missiles.

Plus some dinky 5” guns and 6 or so 30mm.

 

[Good2Golf]

Plus some dinky 5” guns and 6 or so 30mm.

Canada could help…

 

[Colin Parkinson]

While I’m pipe dreaming, it would be nice to see a Nuclear Powered Battleship.

Perhaps between the CGN Long Beach size of 15,500 tons but short of the size of the New Jersey at 60k, maybe 30k tons with 1k personnel.

6 20” guns in 3 dual turrets
Ass ton of missiles.

Plus some dinky 5” guns and 6 or so 30mm.

Even in the heyday of guns, they considered 18" impractical. 16" was the best balance between effect, muzzle wear, ammunition handling and ROF. As I recall the German 11" had the powder in cases, which were loaded after the round was rammed home. According to wiki this gave them a ROF of 17 seconds. The British BL 14-inch Mk VII naval gun was likley one of the best BB guns of the war with a ROF of 30 seconds per round, but used bagged charges. The German cased propellant below.

 

[KevinB]

Even in the heyday of guns, they considered 18" impractical. 16" was the best balance between effect, muzzle wear, ammunition handling and ROF. As I recall the German 11" had the powder in cases, which were loaded after the round was rammed home. According to wiki this gave them a ROF of 17 seconds. The British BL 14-inch Mk VII naval gun was likley one of the best BB guns of the war with a ROF of 30 seconds per round, but used bagged charges. The German cased propellant below.

Keep in mind propellants have come a long long way from then. CTA rounds are cylinders (usually from polymers) that encapsulate the projectile and propellant.

While the Iowa class three a VW Bug sized projectile, I’m thinking of a Mercedes Sprinter Van.

But actually thinking more practically, you would be probably better off just having MRLS type pods with reload Under Armor, and tossing GMLRS and PrSM. Then a plethora of missiles, like say 128 S/VLS cells with reload under armor capability, then three dozen or so 30mm for C-UAS and small craft.

 

[dimsum]

But actually thinking more practically, you would be probably better off just having MRLS type pods with reload Under Armor, and tossing GMLRS and PrSM. Then a plethora of missiles, like say 128 S/VLS cells with reload under armor capability, then three dozen or so 30mm for C-UAS and small craft.

Soviet naval architects like this comment

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Even in the heyday of guns, they considered 18" impractical. 16" was the best balance between effect, muzzle wear, ammunition handling and ROF. As I recall the German 11" had the powder in cases, which were loaded after the round was rammed home. According to wiki this gave them a ROF of 17 seconds. The British BL 14-inch Mk VII naval gun was likley one of the best BB guns of the war with a ROF of 30 seconds per round, but used bagged charges. The German cased propellant below.

The reason warships of old did not used cased ammunition beyond 8 inch (generally) is that you have a two part problem: you have to handle something the length and weight of a small car and then you have to do something with the empty casing after you fire the round. Both things are very difficult in an armoured turret.

Once you get above about 16 inches, the amount of propellant required to propel the round begins to seriously erode the barrel. The Germans were big on railway guns, but they were doing barrel changes every 200-400 rounds. Sure, with modern metallurgy you might do better, but probably not much.

The sweet spot for modern naval guns is probably 5 inch. The USN had a sweet dual purpose 8 inch gun in the late 1940s that was largely automated (by the standards of the day), but missiles became the flavour of the day.

 

[OldSolduer]

So. Naval gunnery. Firing from a moving platform on another moving platform.
Or firing at a shore target. The math etc involved must be amazing.

Or is it witchcraft???

 

[RangerRay]

In my fantasy world, we would have battlecruisers again.

HMS Uganda (66) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Rifleman62]

HMS Uganda, you can hold a vote to stay in theatre or go home.

 

[YZT580]

In my fantasy world, we would have battlecruisers again.

HMS Uganda (66) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

It would appear to this layman that the one advantage of guns over missiles is the number of war shots available without requiring a withdrawal in order to re-load. Perhaps a combination of big guns and MLRS?