The War in Ukraine

[rmc_wannabe]

That's Russian doctrine isn't it ? Keep throwing human flesh at the enemy until they give up ?

That and artillery rounds. Western doctrine is based on IDF supporting maneuvre; Russian doctrine is based on maneuvre supporting IDF.

 

[KevinB]

That and artillery rounds. Western doctrine is based on IDF supporting maneuvre; Russian doctrine is based on maneuvre supporting IDF.

Not just arty. They blew a lot of that trying to stem the Ukrainian attacks last year. The NK arty ‘save’ helped them somewhat - but they are using a lot of their glide bomb kits and Iranian missiles and OWUAS to reduce the front to rubble.

But Western ‘maneuver’ doctrine is also predicated on fires - we’ve just become complacent in believing that the Air Force can do that without artillery for the most part of late.

The other aspect is that post WW2 Western doctrine has limited the amount of firepower used on civilian populations. So simply using brute force and rolling forward over the ruins isn't viewed acceptable.

 

[mariomike]

The other aspect is that post WW2 Western doctrine has limited the amount of firepower used on civilian populations. So simply using brute force and rolling forward over the ruins isn't viewed acceptable.

That leaves mining. Mines never destroy homes, hospitals, or industrial facilities.

Operation Starvation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Speaking for all Japanese mine experts, Captain Kyuzo Tamura, Imperial Japanese Navy, told postwar interrogators, “The result of B-29 mining was so effective against the shipping that it eventually starved the country. I think you probably could have shortened the war by beginning earlier.”

With an expenditure of only 5.7 per cent of its total effort, the Twenty-First Bomber Command sank or damaged 606 ships, with a known total tonnage of 1,251,256. Another 64 ships sunk or damaged had an estimated tonnage of 147,900. Against total Japanese casualties of 670 ships, only fifteen minelaying B-29s were lost during Operation Starvation. That meant that for each plane lost, 45 ships had been sunk.

 

[GR66]

That leaves mining. Mines never destroy homes, hospitals, or industrial facilities.

Operation Starvation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Speaking for all Japanese mine experts, Captain Kyuzo Tamura, Imperial Japanese Navy, told postwar interrogators, “The result of B-29 mining was so effective against the shipping that it eventually starved the country. I think you probably could have shortened the war by beginning earlier.”

Not downplaying the importance of the air-dropped mine campaign but the US submarine campaign against Japanese shipping had a much greater impact on the war.

 

[KevinB]

That leaves mining. Mines never destroy homes, hospitals, or industrial facilities.

Depends what you call a Mine, and just as importantly how they are designed employed.

One can totally destroy homes, hospitals and industry with launched scattering mines.

 

[mariomike]

Depends what you call a Mine, and just as importantly how they are designed employed.

As I posted,

Operation Starvation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Japan's Nightmare—Mine Blockade

The war began in many ways,

www.usni.org

U.S. Naval Institute

Japan's Nightmare—Mine Blockade​

By Lieutenant Commander Arnold S. Lott, USN

Mines never destroy homes, hospitals, or industrial facilities

 

[KevinB]

You’re talking sea mines.

The BLU-82/C-130 was originally technically a mine - as the due to the Key West agreement the Army is forbidden from dropping bombs (that is the USAF’s role) so a section of rod was added and the Army called it a mine. The Daisy Cutter wasn’t actually designed to make detonation standoff (like it matters with a bomb that big)

 

[Retired AF Guy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1785349554113495446

Looks like some of the bodies have been there a while. No truces to retrieve the dead??

 

[Maxman1]

Looks like some of the bodies have been there a while. No truces to retrieve the dead??

If the Russians don't recover them, they can't be declared dead so death benefits don't have to be paid out.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

If the Russians don't recover them, they can't be declared dead so death benefits don't have to be paid out.

Gotcha!

 

[Skysix]

The next generation of Russians (that will be in their military in 7-15 years after an unbroken Russia negotiated some kind of frozen conflict "peace" deal in 2024 or 2025) proudly showing their class winning artwork at school.



Tell me again how long or well any "peace" treaty will work in curbing Russian imperialistic expansion - but with the human resources they have already kidnapped in Ukraine and the millions more Russified and drafted Ukrainian veterans in the conquered areas of what we currently think of as Ukraine.

Any of these kids creating this artwork in an elementary school in even Marjorie Traitor-Greene's electoral district would be, along with their parents, in psychiatric care and visited by CPS. (screenshot from midway through the clip)

A beaten Russia that has fully departed 1991 Ukraines borders (thus allowing Ukraine to join NATO) and survived a few generations of internal turmoil and reorganisation - or one that has unconditionally surrendered to NATO and allowed supervised reconstruction to occur (as Germany and Japan did) are acceptable outcomes for this Genocidal War.

 

[Maxman1]

Gotcha!

 

[Skysix]

If the Russians don't recover them, they can't be declared dead so death benefits don't have to be paid out.

Yup.

And surviving wounded have an even worse uphill battle than agent orange/burn pit/TBI vets do with the VA or VAC as they need a corroborating statement to be officially and legally filed by a supervising NCO or Officer (or multiple corroborating statements from witnesses) that verify the injury was recieved in active combat to have their medical costs and wounded benefits paid out.

The promised wages and benefits are illusory and even monthly wages highly irregular. Sign-on bonuses are even less reliable than the US National Guard's and often are not for combat duty in Ukraine but 'support' duty (like clearing minefields under fire) in "Russia" (as newly annexed).

 

[quadrapiper]

Yup.

And surviving wounded have an even worse uphill battle than agent orange/burn pit/TBI vets do with the VA or VAC as they need a corroborating statement to be officially and legally filed by a supervising NCO or Officer (or multiple corroborating statements from witnesses) that verify the injury was recieved in active combat to have their medical costs and wounded benefits paid out.

The promised wages and benefits are illusory and even monthly wages highly irregular. Sign-on bonuses are even less reliable than the US National Guard's and often are not for combat duty in Ukraine but 'support' duty (like clearing minefields under fire) in "Russia" (as newly annexed).

I wonder just how much of the noise from Russia a little while back about officially designating the occupied territories as part of Russia was driven by that sort of internal game.