2022 CPC Leadership Discussion: Et tu Redeux

[dimsum]

My in laws are from the same "old country" Interesting that my mother in law was very pro Liberal (until Trudeau JR), she worked at Commie I mean York U and my father in law was always pro conservative, he built and owned his own structural steel company.

It’s interesting that York U has a left reputation when it has one of the most sought-after business schools (Schulich), and law schools (Osgoode Hall) in the country.

 

[Brad Sallows]

It’s interesting that York U has a left reputation when it has one of the most sought-after business schools (Schulich), and law schools (Osgoode Hall) in the country.

Business schools might be "right", but contemporary law schools?

 

[dimsum]

Business schools might be "right", but contemporary law schools?

The University of Western Ontario’s law school specializes in business law.

The University of Ottawa’s law school specializes in constitutional law.

I can’t recall what specialty Osgoode is, but I would suspect that it, and the U of T law school, are geared towards Bay Street. TMU (formerly Ryerson) law school is more of the “social justice” law school in the GTA.

 

[Good2Golf]

Not quite the latest latest, but refreshing when you see it, as rare as it is…

 

[dimsum]

Not quite the latest latest, but refreshing when you see it, as rare as it is…

That’s totally on the reporters for asking closed-ended questions. That’s just shoddy question-asking.

If I was being questioned, I’d hope for questions like that.

 

[TacticalTea]

Not quite the latest latest, but refreshing when you see it, as rare as it is…

What's the first question being asked?

Will you be joining ansykop?

 

[Good2Golf]

That’s totally on the reporters for asking closed-ended questions. That’s just shoddy question-asking.

If I was being questioned, I’d hope for questions like that.

Yes.

 

[Haggis]

That’s totally on the reporters for asking closed-ended questions. That’s just shoddy question-asking.

If I was being questioned, I’d hope for questions like that.

Trudeau isn't the only politician entitled to the occasional softball question from the media.

 

[brihard]

Not quite the latest latest, but refreshing when you see it, as rare as it is…

I still struggle to take seriously a contender for PM of Canada who is unwilling to receive classified briefings or to review classified reports intended to properly inform senior decision makers on risks from foreign interference or other significant threats to our national security.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I still struggle to take seriously a contender for PM of Canada who is unwilling to receive classified briefings or to review classified reports intended to properly inform senior decision makers on risks from foreign interference or other significant threats to our national security.

Are we still talking about PP or did we switch to the current PM?

 

[brihard]

Are we still talking about PP or did we switch to the current PM?

I was replying about PP specifically, but my opinion on this applies equally regardless of party or any currently held office. I expect those who would lead our country to take national security seriously and to take such opportunities to be properly informed as are offered.

 

[captloadie]

I still struggle to take seriously a contender for PM of Canada who is unwilling to receive classified briefings or to review classified reports intended to properly inform senior decision makers on risks from foreign interference or other significant threats to our national security.

I can understand the logic behind this decision in today's partisan atmosphere. If he gets classified briefs, first, he now needs to be extremely careful on what he says, so has to not compromise the information. He is in some cases hamstrung on his ability to criticize the sitting government, because he knows the reasons behinds a decision, but can't use that information. And by being ignorant of certain information, it can't be used against him in the future by the opposition.

Now, if we had a functioning parliament that could work together at times for the good of the country, rather than to only be concerned about scoring political points, it would be a different story.

 

[TacticalTea]

I still struggle to take seriously a contender for PM of Canada who is unwilling to receive classified briefings or to review classified reports intended to properly inform senior decision makers on risks from foreign interference or other significant threats to our national security.

Did the Liberal Party pay you to say that?

You know why he made that decision. Yet you present it as if he would never listen to such reports once in office. Disingenuous.

He's the leader of the opposition. If there's nothing he can do with a briefing to oppose the government, then the briefing is useless. Once he's in office, I'm sure he'll be happy to get all the briefings, as he'll then be able to act on those.

What happened to need to know? Did that go out the window when it became politically inconvenient?

 

[brihard]

I can understand the logic behind this decision in today's partisan atmosphere. If he gets classified briefs, first, he now needs to be extremely careful on what he says, so has to not compromise the information.

So like the PM or any senior member of government would? I would hope that anyone wanting to lead the country can be discrete. It is absolutely possible to raise concerns and to debate government policy without compromising classified material.

He is in some cases hamstrung on his ability to criticize the sitting government, because he knows the reasons behinds a decision, but can't use that information. And by being ignorant of certain information, it can't be used against him in the future by the opposition.

Right; staying ignorant of classified national security information makes it easier to bullshit without being called on it. But the partisan political convenience of wilful ignorance is not something I find to be a convincing override to the need for senior political leadership to sit at the big kids’ table.

Now, if we had a functioning parliament that could work together at times for the good of the country, rather than to only be concerned about scoring political points, it would be a different story.

Indeed. Imagine if we had senior leaders who were willing to say “I don’t like it, but I’ve seen enough of the classified intelligence backing it to understand the need”. Or to say “I’ve seen the classified intelligence and I disagree with the government’s claimed need”, then leave it to NSICOP and NSIRA to oversee any intelligence procedures and practices. Or even simply to demur and keep quiet. There’s never a shortage of other issues to harp on.

But choosing to make a lot of political noise on NS issues but then not actually get read in in them? Personally that doesn’t impress me or convince me of someone’s suitability to govern.

 

[brihard]

Did the Liberal Party pay you to say that?

If you’ve paid enough attention to recent events, it would be obvious to you that my criticism is not limited to the leader of the opposition. I’ve even alluded to that already in the thread.

What happened to need to know? Did that go out the window when it became politically inconvenient?

Given that intelligence officials are offering the briefings, I accept their judgment that the need to know exists at the level of the leader of the His Majesty’s loyal opposition. Given that he directs his caucus in voting in certain issues and certain committee proceedings, I have no trouble believing the need to know exists at the topmost levels of the opposition.

 

[Remius]

Did the Liberal Party pay you to say that?

You know why he made that decision. Yet you present it as if he would never listen to such reports once in office. Disingenuous.

Nothing disingenuous about calling out a politician if they aren’t really interested in facts or truth and prefer political games.

He's the leader of the opposition.

He’s also supposed to be the leader of the government in waiting. People forget that sometimes.

If there's nothing he can do with a briefing to oppose the government, then the briefing is useless.

Of course not. Not all issues are partisan issues.

Once he's in office, I'm sure he'll be happy to get all the briefings, as he'll then be able to act on those.

As the government in waiting would it not be to the benefit of the country if he were well briefed on most things prior to becoming the leader of the country? And actually aim ones platform to deal with those issues?

What happened to need to know? Did that go out the window when it became politically inconvenient?

It seems that someone figured that maybe the leader of the loyal opposition should know?

 

[Brad Sallows]

I would hope that anyone wanting to lead the country can be discrete.

I prefer them to be continuous.

 

[brihard]

I prefer them to be continuous.

It varies.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I still struggle to take seriously a contender for PM of Canada who is unwilling to receive classified briefings or to review classified reports intended to properly inform senior decision makers on risks from foreign interference or other significant threats to our national security.

Without getting too far into the weeds about why he wouldn't take trudeau's bait, I'm sure when he takes over he'll do what's needed to help keep us secure.

 

[brihard]

Without getting too far into the weeds about why he wouldn't take trudeau's bait, I'm sure when he takes over he'll do what's needed to help keep us secure.

I would hope so, but it would be nice if he walked in the door ready to go, and if for the next year and a bit the opposition could contribute maturely to the discourse from a position of being adequately informed, or at least guided by someone who is. It’s a hell of a big subject to play catch up on.