Ordered to take a DDC and give a safety talk to my troops

[dogger1936]

Honestly folks I've been brewing over this one for a few months now and decided  Iwould post just as a way to direct anger hopefully in a productive way.

During the winter driving out west on military duty my civilian rented DND vehicle hit black ice and I cracked that little black piece off the bumper. Honestly no one would have even noticed, yet I did what was right and required and filled out the accident report and got witness statements from my co driver.  Iwas doing 60 under the speed limit to match the weather conditions and IMHO drove in a very defensive manner only edging into a snowbank at a slow speed once I hit this black ice.

I get a email from base transport telling me I must give a 10 minute speech to my troops about matching speeds to conditions and must attend a DDC.

Is there standing rules on this ? I.E Member must speak on what base traffic decides is the cause and a DDC if any accident is reported? If so can someone provide documentation.

Personally I think it's a bit much, and as far as the 10 minute safety speech to my subordinates.....lets say it's "done". That just seemed like a ignorant thing someone threw in.

As well when a decision is made on the accident by base safety why do they not inform the member of the results?

 

[Strike]

I would personally be more torqued about having to take DDC again then having to give a presentation on driving for conditions.  But, then again, I come from an aviation community where we did that whenever we had a flight safety incident.

Did they tell you how you had to give the speech?  Did they tell you that you were found to be at fault?  Did they say it was because you were speeding?  None of this seems to be the case, based on you post.

Take it as an opportunity to teach the others how a defensive driving course can help them when everything else goes out the window - like it helped you!  Really, turn this in to a positive, and maybe it should start becoming a habit that, no matter who's at fault, people give a brief after any incident or accident.  After all, how else are people going to learn?

 

[dogger1936]

As far as i'm concerned I wasnt at fault other than I was in the vehicle. Stuff happens. No one has told me  I was at fault or that I was speeding, just a ignorant C/C'd email to my officer stating I required to take a DDC and give a 10 minute safety talk (vague) on matching conditions and speed's.

I hear yah on the making it posative but honestly I'm so torqued of their lack of coot and professionalisim. It's all in approach. Here I am one month out of a posting with a busy handover occuring now this on top of it; for IMHO no good reason just really pisses me off.

Apparently my reduced speed and correct steering that kept the vehicle on the road doesnt comply with the DDC.

I agree talkin to troops about this is important for learning, not 7 months after the fact. honestly it's like something my mother would have made up for me to do 30 years ago. Give a speech on the dangers of underage drinking etc.

 

[cphansen]

Honestly folks I've been brewing over this one for a few months now and decided  Iwould post just as a way to direct anger hopefully in a productive way.

During the winter driving out west on military duty my civilian rented DND vehicle hit black ice and I cracked that little black piece off the bumper. Honestly no one would have even noticed, yet I did what was right and required and filled out the accident report and got witness statements from my co driver.  Iwas doing 60 under the speed limit to match the weather conditions and IMHO drove in a very defensive manner only edging into a snowbank at a slow speed once I hit this black ice.

I wouldn't waste my anger on this incident. I can see them asking you to give a talk on the accident to your troops. There are 2 points here, first, even driving defensively, unforeseen things happen and you may not be able to react quickly enough to avoid the accident, even if you have already minimized the effects of the accident. Second defensive driving works, you weren't killed or even injured.

These are things which your troops have already been told, but may not appreciate the truth of it. Whereas coming from you it may have more affect on them. As for taking a DDC, I always feel everyone should have a refresher course. It's an important skill, which should be rehearsed and practised as often as possible.

 

[Wookilar]

Dogger,

I know it sucks a little but I am afraid you're one of the honest people that got caught up in "the system." Every "collision" is investigated and put into an MSE Safety Report, which gets signed off by OC Tn (or the Tn Authority, it might be different people) and then the CO/Base Commander approves. MSE Safety makes a recommendation, OC Tn adds their  :2c: and then the big guy/girl signs off.

Even though there was minimal/no real damage, we are stuck by the new rental agreement that someone in PWGSC signed for us (if anyone ever finds out who that was, let me know  ) and we have to document every single nick and scratch. We are getting nailed for big $$$$$ for damages after the fact from the different rental companies.

Being on the other side of the continent, I didn't see your accident report, but I can guess what it reads like. As far as MSE Safety is concerned, you were going too fast for the conditions. If you were going slow enough, you would not have lost control at all, not just minimized the damage. In the collision investigation world, it is that simple. It's similar to weapons in that we don't have "accidental" discharges anymore, they're all "negligent" with possible extenuating circumstances.

The corrective action given is pretty standard for minor collisions. Technically, they could have held your 404's; some Bases do that until the collision investigation is complete. I do not agree with how you found out about their corrective action, that's not how MSE Safety worked when I was there.

If you've got any specific questions, send me a pm and I can point you in the right direction for refs or explain a few things in more detail.

And from this Tn guy, thanks for being honest and doing the right thing. Setting a good example for your troops can do so much good for us overall. I wish more people were like that, I would have a lot less paperwork to do.

Wook

 

[dogger1936]

Dogger,

I know it sucks a little but I am afraid you're one of the honest people that got caught up in "the system." Every "collision" is investigated and put into an MSE Safety Report, which gets signed off by OC Tn (or the Tn Authority, it might be different people) and then the CO/Base Commander approves. MSE Safety makes a recommendation, OC Tn adds their  :2c: and then the big guy/girl signs off.

Even though there was minimal/no real damage, we are stuck by the new rental agreement that someone in PWGSC signed for us (if anyone ever finds out who that was, let me know  ) and we have to document every single nick and scratch. We are getting nailed for big $$$$$ for damages after the fact from the different rental companies.

Being on the other side of the continent, I didn't see your accident report, but I can guess what it reads like. As far as MSE Safety is concerned, you were going too fast for the conditions. If you were going slow enough, you would not have lost control at all, not just minimized the damage. In the collision investigation world, it is that simple. It's similar to weapons in that we don't have "accidental" discharges anymore, they're all "negligent" with possible extenuating circumstances.

The corrective action given is pretty standard for minor collisions. Technically, they could have held your 404's; some Bases do that until the collision investigation is complete. I do not agree with how you found out about their corrective action, that's not how MSE Safety worked when I was there.

If you've got any specific questions, send me a pm and I can point you in the right direction for refs or explain a few things in more detail.

And from this Tn guy, thanks for being honest and doing the right thing. Setting a good example for your troops can do so much good for us overall. I wish more people were like that, I would have a lot less paperwork to do.

Wook

Cheer's mate
And thanks a ton for the background info on how the system works. Having a understanding of that is easing my rage.  I as well don't agree with the method they went about addressing this however seeing this is the normal COA i'm feeling a little better about it. I'm sure my DDC is gonna expire soon anyway!

thanks!

 

[Fishbone Jones]

The DDC I can see. Quite often thats normal after an accident. That, or another road test. Point of fact, whether you think you weren't at fault or not, an accident because of conditions is quite simply called overdriving the conditions. If you were doing 5km\ hr and had an accident, you were going too fast. You shouldn't have been on the road. It's that simple. You refuse to drive on safety grounds and safety is a command responsibility.

Now, as far as the lecture. Who's authority is this order being issued under and by who?

What happens if you don't do it? Do they have your 404's til this is resolved to their satisfaction?

In the end, your DDC gets updated and you've got that much more until you have to do it again, and you get to spend ten minutes discussing something relevent with your troops, instead of what was on TV last night.

When the world hands you lemons, make lemonade.

 

[Infanteer]

A bit off topic, but I never understood the Rental thing.  Never mind the poor lesson of units being entirely dependant on rentals to move, but how much extra $$$ does it cost us to rent a small fleet of trucks to go to the field?

 

[dogger1936]

The DDC I can see. Quite often thats normal after an accident. That, or another road test. Point of fact, whether you think you weren't at fault or not, an accident because of conditions is quite simply called overdriving the conditions. If you were doing 5km\ hr and had an accident, you were going too fast. You shouldn't have been on the road. It's that simple. You refuse to drive on safety grounds and safety is a command responsibility.

Now, as far as the lecture. Who's authority is this order being issued under and by who?

What happens if you don't do it? Do they have your 404's til this is resolved to their satisfaction?

In the end, your DDC gets updated and you've got that much more until you have to do it again, and you get to spend ten minutes discussing something relevent with your troops, instead of what was on TV last night.

When the world hands you lemons, make lemonade.

Couldnt agree more,  I have no clue who's authority it's issued under but lets just say the safety talk has been completed!

 

[alfie]

Just showing my age here, it used to be that if you had an accident (other than field damage) whether your fault or not you lost your 404s for 6 months and had to do your DDC and a road test before you drove again.

Alfie

 

[Timmy!]

A bit off topic, but I never understood the Rental thing.  Never mind the poor lesson of units being entirely dependant on rentals to move, but how much extra $$$ does it cost us to rent a small fleet of trucks to go to the field?

You and I can chat about it via PM's if you wish.

Regards,
TN2IC