- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 50
Posted by m.oleary@ns.sympatico.ca Mike Oleary on Wed, 28 Mar 2001 11:50:12 -0500
There is little to add to this debate that John, Don and others haven‘t
presented.
Perhaps the better question, Sgt Woods, is "Why do you seek such a
reference?"
If the experience represented on this list is insufficient for your needs,
or has failed to offer you the ‘angle‘ you are looking for, then what
reference would suffice?
How old a reference are you ready to respect? Or by what rank written,
officer or NCO? What point of argument are you trying to establish with a
"written reference" and to whom do you plan to use this to demonstrate a
presumed moral high ground?
No written reference is going to present the relevant points more succinctly
or with better real-time focus than have the gentlemen on this list. I would
suggest you review their comments carefully, go back to them for individual
points of clarification where necessary and accept that their views,
collectively and individually, are likely the best representation you are
could hope to receive.
The bottom line is that the NCO brings experience and training to the table
balanced with a regimental sense of duty to protect the men though NOT
specifically from the officer, while the officer has the authority and
responsibility for his unit pl, coy, etc. balanced with technical training
for his role but likely limited experience at that level. The two have a
symbiotic as noted by John responsibility to achieve the unit‘s missions
with an economy of effort particularly with respect to their manpower no
gender bias implied, Joan and especially maintaining to the troops that
the officer is most clearly in charge of all things. In front of the troops,
the officer wins each and every point of contention. Such issues can always
be sorted out afterwards always well away from the troops, with a friendly
tone whenever possible, or through the CSM to the OC if the seriousness of
the issue is significant.
Keep in mind that if an officer enacts a bad decision he or she has to
live with the responsibility for it. And if an officer is
persuaded/coerced/badgered, etc. by a strong-willed NCO to enact a bad
decision - it is not the NCO that bears the responsibility for it
afterwards, it is still the officer who does so. Personally I‘d rather eat
crow for my own bad choices.
While I would expect an NCO to point out alternatives, I would also expect
those choices to come with reasoned arguments as to why it may be better
than my own plan. And that includes areas where we normally let the NCO
handle things without interference. For example, if an officer decides to
re-engineer an administrative measure he/she is well within their area of
authority to do so.
Once I have things sorted out, I will, however, look through my files for
such a reference. Perhaps I will add it to the resources on my website.
Pro Patria
Mike
http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Martin Woods
To:
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 11:35 PM
Subject: RE: Sr NCO / Officer relationship
> Fellow list members. So far excellent and entertaining responses. But I
> think that you miss the essence of what I am seeking.
>
> I am looking for the almost impossible A Written Reference.
>
> I have spoken to many who have referred to seeing such a reference, yet no
> one seems to be able to say where.
> I‘m afraid it is like the Easter Bunny. All believe, but no one can say
> why.
>
> MGW
--------------------------------------------------------
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remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.
There is little to add to this debate that John, Don and others haven‘t
presented.
Perhaps the better question, Sgt Woods, is "Why do you seek such a
reference?"
If the experience represented on this list is insufficient for your needs,
or has failed to offer you the ‘angle‘ you are looking for, then what
reference would suffice?
How old a reference are you ready to respect? Or by what rank written,
officer or NCO? What point of argument are you trying to establish with a
"written reference" and to whom do you plan to use this to demonstrate a
presumed moral high ground?
No written reference is going to present the relevant points more succinctly
or with better real-time focus than have the gentlemen on this list. I would
suggest you review their comments carefully, go back to them for individual
points of clarification where necessary and accept that their views,
collectively and individually, are likely the best representation you are
could hope to receive.
The bottom line is that the NCO brings experience and training to the table
balanced with a regimental sense of duty to protect the men though NOT
specifically from the officer, while the officer has the authority and
responsibility for his unit pl, coy, etc. balanced with technical training
for his role but likely limited experience at that level. The two have a
symbiotic as noted by John responsibility to achieve the unit‘s missions
with an economy of effort particularly with respect to their manpower no
gender bias implied, Joan and especially maintaining to the troops that
the officer is most clearly in charge of all things. In front of the troops,
the officer wins each and every point of contention. Such issues can always
be sorted out afterwards always well away from the troops, with a friendly
tone whenever possible, or through the CSM to the OC if the seriousness of
the issue is significant.
Keep in mind that if an officer enacts a bad decision he or she has to
live with the responsibility for it. And if an officer is
persuaded/coerced/badgered, etc. by a strong-willed NCO to enact a bad
decision - it is not the NCO that bears the responsibility for it
afterwards, it is still the officer who does so. Personally I‘d rather eat
crow for my own bad choices.
While I would expect an NCO to point out alternatives, I would also expect
those choices to come with reasoned arguments as to why it may be better
than my own plan. And that includes areas where we normally let the NCO
handle things without interference. For example, if an officer decides to
re-engineer an administrative measure he/she is well within their area of
authority to do so.
Once I have things sorted out, I will, however, look through my files for
such a reference. Perhaps I will add it to the resources on my website.
Pro Patria
Mike
http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Martin Woods
To:
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 11:35 PM
Subject: RE: Sr NCO / Officer relationship
> Fellow list members. So far excellent and entertaining responses. But I
> think that you miss the essence of what I am seeking.
>
> I am looking for the almost impossible A Written Reference.
>
> I have spoken to many who have referred to seeing such a reference, yet no
> one seems to be able to say where.
> I‘m afraid it is like the Easter Bunny. All believe, but no one can say
> why.
>
> MGW
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.
