Saluting the Ensign

[Good2Golf]

Is nothing sacred to you zoomies? ha ha.

Okay....I shall smartly salute the ship's ensign as I set foot off the gangway onto the quarter-deck! 

Come cheer up, my lads! 'tis to glory we steer...


Cheers,
Duey

 

[Gino]

Okay....I shall smartly salute the ship's ensign as I set foot off the gangway onto the quarter-deck! 

Come cheer up, my lads! 'tis to glory we steer...


Cheers,
Duey

You guys, don't you know it's the quarterdeck you salute, not the ensign?

 

[navymich]

Well, if we want to be really exact, it's actually the commission of the ship you are saluting.  Which throws some people off when they cross the brow of an out-of-routine ship and don't salute because there is no ensign flying.

But I digress, or rather, continue the digression.... ;D

 

[Good2Golf]

You guys, don't you know it's the quarterdeck you salute, not the ensign?

That's it, you ingrates!  I crack off a bit of Heart of Oak and get this.......hmpfffff......    [inset sulking noise here]

 

[FSTO]

That's it, you ingrates!  I crack off a bit of Heart of Oak and get this.......hmpfffff......    [inset sulking noise here]

Now you know what happens when you Blue and Green meanies try to screw around with the way we do things in the RCN!!!!!!!!!! :threat:

 

[Gino]

Well, if we want to be really exact, it's actually the commission of the ship you are saluting.  Which throws some people off when they cross the brow of an out-of-routine ship and don't salute because there is no ensign flying.

But I digress, or rather, continue the digression.... ;D

I do wish to be exact, and if you consult the Manual of Ceremonial for HMC Ships you will see that it is the AX that is being saluted.  However, they also have some new thing about facing aft toward the ensign as well, which is very confusing and very American.

 

[Nicholas2004]

i guess there will be a rise in the number of applications for the Canadian Marines!!

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

I do wish to be exact, and if you consult the Manual of Ceremonial for HMC Ships you will see that it is the AX that is being saluted.  However, they also have some new thing about facing aft toward the ensign as well, which is very confusing and very American.

Facing aft??? Balderdash!! Next they'll have us asking some pimply faced Subbie for permission to come aboard!!! 

The origin of saluting the Quarter deck was that there was a crucifix mounted there and as sailors crossed the brow they crossed themselves (blessed themselves for you RCs). It was a sign of respect to the Almighty...the King of Kings. Now of course as pointed out we are saluting the commission of the ship....not the ensign...that's why we salute after sunset and before colours. When the ship is out of routine though...we don't salute.

Huey I do appreciate your effort to understand us in the SENIOR SERVICE.  ;D

 

[Good2Golf]

In Hoc, I can sing the rest of the words to Heart of Oak if you'd like...I was practicing in the shower this morning!  ;D

...
Heart of oak are our ships, heart of oak are our men;
We always are ready, steady, boys, steady!
We'll fight and we'll conquer again and again.

...dum dee dum [insert more bad singing here]...

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

In Hoc, I can sing the rest of the words to Heart of Oak if you'd like...I was practicing in the shower this morning!  ;D

...
Heart of oak are our ships, heart of oak are our men;
We always are ready, steady, boys, steady!
We'll fight and we'll conquer again and again.

...dum dee dum [insert more bad singing here]...

Doesn't everyone sing Heart of Oak in the shower every morning? ;D

I'm loathe to mention this for fear of the mocking but....I have a friend...who wears Air Force Blue....who mocks our Naval March Past by calling it  "Head of Oak." This due to his unfortunate experience aboard some of Her Majesty's ships with prickly MARS officers. Can't understand it myself....there are Naval Standards and ....well all the rest..... ;D

 

[navymich]

Now of course as pointed out we are saluting the commission of the ship....not the ensign...that's why we salute after sunset and before colours. When the ship is out of routine though...we don't salute.

As I mentioned earlier, and you say here, we salute the commission not the ensign.  However, you then go on to say that when it is out of routine you do not salute.  That simply contradicts about saluting the commission.  When a ship is out of routine, it is still in commission and therefore you are still to salute it.

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

As I mentioned earlier, and you say here, we salute the commission not the ensign.  However, you then go on to say that when it is out of routine you do not salute.  That simply contradicts about saluting the commission.  When a ship is out of routine, it is still in commission and therefore you are still to salute it.

It's kind of like saluting indoors...we don't do it in the Navy even though someone is commissioned. I'm not sure why the salute is not given when the ship is out of routine. A lot of times the commissioning pennant is taken down and stored so maybe that's the answer. Maybe the FTSO has an answer....I think Adam was probably an ordinary seaman when he joined ;D

 

[navymich]

Perhaps it's time for a thread split. 

Sounds like a good idea to me, because once I get started on ceremonial, I'm not stopping anytime soon.

I'm not sure why the salute is not given when the ship is out of routine. A lot of times the commissioning pennant is taken down and stored so maybe that's the answer.

What I said earlier, and I will say again, the salute IS given when the ship is out of routine, because the commissioning pennant is NOT hauled down until the ship is decomissioned.

Gravyboat, thanks for putting in the quote from MOC.  I was looking up the same info yesterday and I knew I should have brought my copy home with me LOL.

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

Perhaps it's time for a thread split. 

Taken from ye ol' manual of Cermony for HMC Ships, Submarines and Naval Reserve Divisions:

201.     COMPLIMENTS

a. Shipboard:

In addition to marks of respect laid down at reference A, the following shipboard 
occasions require marks of respect to be paid:

(1) prior to embarking or upon disembarking from a boat with a Senior
Officer in the boat;

(2) when reporting formal rounds to an officer;

(3) at requestmen and defaulters; and

(4) to the Commanding Officer and other Senior Officers/Distinguished persons on the first occasion each day upon their entering the bridge.


b. Commissioned Ships and Naval Reserve Divisions:

Marks of respect are paid to commissioned ships and Naval Reserve Divisions as outlined below:


DRESS OCCASION COMING ONBOARD VIA THE QUARTERDECK/GANGWAY LEAVING VIA THE QUARTERDECK/GANGWAY
In Uniform All Occasions Hand Salute Hand Salute
In Plain Clothes With Cap Position of AttentionRemove Cap Position of AttentionRemove  Cap
Without Cap Position of Attention Position of Attention


Note: The Quartermaster and the OOD return compliment to Officers arriving or leaving a ship.


702.     SHIPS OUT-OF-ROUTINE

a. HMC Ships that are in an unmanned refit, Extended Work Period (EWP), Extended Readiness Period (ERP), reduced manning, or Reduced Duty Watch (RDW) are to be considered out-of-routine and shall:

(1) not hoist the Naval Jack and shall fly the Port flag at the commencement of  the inactive period on the date promulgated by the Commanding Officer; and

(2) rehoist Ship's Colours and haul down the Port flag on the date marking the end of the inactive period.

b. Further, ships in unmanned refit shall haul down the Ensign, Commissioning Pennant and the Port flag when the ship is deactivated and signed for by the contractor.

There you have it. When it is in an unmanned refit and it has been turned over to the contractor the pennant is hauled down and compliments are not paid....that's what I meant.

Are all you Army and Air Force types hoisting all this aboard??

 

[navymich]

Not going to edit, because that would lose the train of threads, but will clarify on my line of thinking.  I was going along the line of the ships that are out-of-routine for a work period, not a deactivation.  For example, there is typically one MCDV in an "extended readiness" position at all times.  She is still manned, albeit a small custodial crew.  And it is her that I speak about that personnel forget to salute.  I guess I had my blinders on to the word "deactivation" vice "decommissioning".

On a side note, although a bit along the same line of things, many also do not realize, that if a ship is out-of-routine on a dress ship occasion, the Port flag is hauled down and she is to dress as applicable.

 

[BEEFY06]

It's kind of like saluting indoors...we don't do it in the Navy even though someone is commissioned.

Tell me about it, i just finished two courses in CFLRS and they salute in the "MEGA." At first i didn't believe all the stories i was told, for been a hardy sailor, i had to see this to believe. But sure enough, they have a special rule. Saluting indoors, is so the recruits get pratice at saluting....
"You dont have to agree with it, you just have to understand it....

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

Tell me about it, i just finished two courses in CFLRS and they salute in the "MEGA." At first i didn't believe all the stories i was told, for been a hardy sailor, i had to see this to believe. But sure enough, they have a special rule. Saluting indoors, is so the recruits get pratice at saluting....
"You dont have to agree with it, you just have to understand it....

They make soldiers salute inside the J7 building at Gagetown too. This is the location of all the schools; Armour Artillery and Armour (Tactics too). It is also home to the OR...so you have to be on your toes when you go in to check your pay or visit IRPP...

 

[Sub_Guy]

On a side note, although a bit along the same line of things, many also do not realize, that if a ship is out-of-routine on a dress ship occasion, the Port flag is hauled down and she is to dress as applicable.

9. On all occasions when ships are dressed, manned out-of-routine ships shall, unless otherwise ordered:
a. dress with masthead flags, and 
b. naval Jack

I guess you can that dressing ship, but it is a hell of a lot easier than rigging all the other crap

 

[navymich]

Maybe alot easier, but it is one of my pet peeves when most ships send out messages with the reasons that they can't dress overall and that therefore they will be dressing with masthead only.  Yes, I understand there is work going on in different areas of the ship that the lines will effect.  But it just isn't the same anymore when you are lucky if you get one ship in the harbour dressing.  To me it just defeats the purpose of having the occasions for dressing.

 

[Sub_Guy]

Not a peeve of mine, we should give the bosuns our ceremonial, so we can carry on with our IT work in the shack!  Besides it takes a great deal of effort to climb the fin to hoist an ensign.