The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)

[Quirky]

How much has the entire CF-18 fleet cost? That number should be much easier to find considering everything spent is now historical. I'd guess over $100B easy up to this point when you factor the Aussie hornet purchases and retrofits.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

How much has the entire CF-18 fleet cost? That number should be much easier to find considering everything spent is now historical. I'd guess over $100B easy up to this point when you factor the Aussie hornet purchases and retrofits.

ROM guess- probably in the neighbourhood of 40-50 BCAD, since 1982.

 

[Rifleman62]

Doesn't the PBO report also include disposal costs?

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Doesn't the PBO report also include disposal costs?

Yes, they are supposed to.

 

[Kirkhill]

Tough to stoke outrage when you inject common sense and facts.

Funny. My immediate reaction to this was agreement. My second thought was that it was probably more likely that the reporters and editors just wanted to attract eyeballs to sell whatever replaces ink these days. But my third thought was maybe the days of the ink sellers have truly gone and you were right with your observation. There seem to be an awful lot of true believers publishing stuff these days, and they have agendas beyond simply making money from ink.

Sorry for the tangent.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Let’s just say the Eurasian Times isn’t exactly Reuters-level reporting accuracy.

They are an Indian owned online news organization that, in the past, has been fairly pro Putin and Pro-Russian.

Can’t think of any reason any of that would lead to a hit piece on F35 procurement in Canada…

 

[calculus]

I posted this here, but it's less about the new fighters than a picture of the current state of the RCAF fighter force. A little nugget that perhaps a few of you on this forum will already know, but according to Billie Flynn, Canada has less than 50 combat capably fighter pilots!

 

[Quirky]

Canada has less than 50 combat capably fighter pilots!

Shit, you mean rotating between cold lake and Bagotville isn’t that appealing? Shocker.

 

[KevinB]

I posted this here, but it's less about the new fighters than a picture of the current state of the RCAF fighter force. A little nugget that perhaps a few of you on this forum will already know, but according to Billie Flynn, Canada has less than 50 combat capably fighter pilots!

So about 2 per combat capable airframe…

 

[Quirky]

So about 2 per combat capable airframe…

Don’t worry though, we have over 500 AERE officers.

 

[Kirkhill]

I posted this here, but it's less about the new fighters than a picture of the current state of the RCAF fighter force. A little nugget that perhaps a few of you on this forum will already know, but according to Billie Flynn, Canada has less than 50 combat capably fighter pilots!

Incest.

"I am a vet with 23 years in. My father was a vet. My mother was a vet. My wife was a vet. Her brother was a vet....."
Fast forwards.
"The CRCAF is the son of my first squadron commander. The squadron commander's wife kept me out of trouble...."

Is that part of the problem here? The echo chamber keeps getting smaller and smaller and the people inside it become less and less able to communicate outside the bubble? And they become easier to ignore? And the folks inside the bubble find it easier to ignore those outside?

.....

I note that Mr. Flynn's first fix is - re-engage the recently released and bring them back in as reserves to continue flying the Hornets part time.

 

[Good2Golf]

I note that Mr. Flynn's first fix is - re-engage the recently released and bring them back in as reserves to continue flying the Hornets part time.

The folks at Top Aces may not want to stop drawing their pension and go back to lower net income to get beasted around YOD and YBG, vice live in Quebec City and keep having fun in their Alpha Jets.

 

[GK .Dundas]

Incest.

"I am a vet with 23 years in. My father was a vet. My mother was a vet. My wife was a vet. Her brother was a vet....."
Fast forwards.
"The CRCAF is the son of my first squadron commander. The squadron commander's wife kept me out of trouble...."

Is that part of the problem here? The echo chamber keeps getting smaller and smaller and the people inside it become less and less able to communicate outside the bubble? And they become easier to ignore? And the folks inside the bubble find it easier to ignore those outside?

.....

I note that Mr. Flynn's first fix is - re-engage the recently released and bring them back in as reserves to continue flying the Hornets part time.

I want to be a fly on the wall when they announce to what ever Civil Servants that have sign off on this.
When you announce that you're going to allow part time amateur pilots carrying live ordinance to fly mach 1.5 fighter bombers over urban areas .
Those noisy sonic booming death carrying death machines. ....that are currently held together with gun tape and staples ( you wondered what happened to the office stapler , didn't you?)
And you know, that's the way it will probably be described .
Then you have to clear it with the politicians.
Good luck.

 

[CBH99]

Incest.

"I am a vet with 23 years in. My father was a vet. My mother was a vet. My wife was a vet. Her brother was a vet....."
Fast forwards.
"The CRCAF is the son of my first squadron commander. The squadron commander's wife kept me out of trouble...."

Is that part of the problem here? The echo chamber keeps getting smaller and smaller and the people inside it become less and less able to communicate outside the bubble? And they become easier to ignore? And the folks inside the bubble find it easier to ignore those outside?

.....

I note that Mr. Flynn's first fix is - re-engage the recently released and bring them back in as reserves to continue flying the Hornets part time.

Can't fault the guy for thinking outside the box and getting creative with ideas on how to get more pilots in the ranks

The USAF does it quite successfully with part time pilots in both the National Guard and the Reserve (and some lucky National Guard guys even get to fly the F-22 as their part time side hustle! Lucky lucky lucky buggers)



For us, if it means keeping some experienced folks in uniform at least part time so they can bolster the ranks -- it's a lot better than losing them altogether

 

[SupersonicMax]

Can't fault the guy for thinking outside the box and getting creative with ideas on how to get more pilots in the ranks

The USAF does it quite successfully with part time pilots in both the National Guard and the Reserve (and some lucky National Guard guys even get to fly the F-22 as their part time side hustle! Lucky lucky lucky buggers)



For us, if it means keeping some experienced folks in uniform at least part time so they can bolster the ranks -- it's a lot better than losing them altogether

We already hire ex-Reg F in the reserves but it is extremely difficult to keep them current when they reside outside Bagotville or Cold Lake. Unless they come back for several weeks at the time to contribute to the program (conducting upgrade rides, hold QRA), the cost of making those folks current again outweighs the benefits.

We employ MOB reservists very efficiently.

 

[armrdsoul77]

I posted this here, but it's less about the new fighters than a picture of the current state of the RCAF fighter force. A little nugget that perhaps a few of you on this forum will already know, but according to Billie Flynn, Canada has less than 50 combat capably fighter pilots!

Very interesting. Lots of insight. CF-18's bought direct in a commercial sale rather than FMS and initially missed out on the experience/training from the US Navy so were utlizing the new jets with tactics from the voodoo/starfighter 2nd generation fighters rather than the 4th gen technology they were.

He seems to think there is a very real possibility Bombardier can threaten Boeing in regards to the MPA because of politics (aerospace socialism) in Canada.

 

[dimsum]

Don’t worry though, we have over 500 AERE officers.

Which is not enough because they get poached by other agencies, or civilian companies.

 

[CBH99]

Someone on this board just the other day had hinted at precisely that tactic...Bombardier makes enough of a stink in Quebec (typically where the Libs go to scrape for votes) and delay the purchase until the P8 line has shut down - in theory eliminating the competition and forcing the government to sole source to Bombardier

A few thoughts...

- If that is indeed the strategy, Bombardier better be getting their s**t together mighty quick behind the scenes

- Talk to Sweden about why the Swordfish didn't get any foreign interest, and why that project went nowhere. The fact that the idea was based on Bombardier aircraft should make for some prudent inquiries from all the parties involved

- Just buy the F**king P8 already, for all the benefits that come with it (that have been cited throughout the thread)

Bombardier doesn't like it? So what?

They want to spend the money taking the government to court? Go for it...we issued an open bid for the project, and Bombardier didn't submit one by the deadline stated. They don't have a leg to stand on in this (aka you snooze you lose, aka we aren't obligated to buy your imaginary airplane so bugger off)



Just watched that interview, and wow!!

Okay Army guys, no more complaining about the TAPV for a while...looks like the RCAF has us beat in the "problems" department!

The RCAF does have some smart cookies in its senior ranks - they need to fix their communication, image, and hence recruiting & retention.

While I can't speak for retention, I imagine them communicating their various entry plans would do A LOT of good in attracting people.

I think most people just think "Oh I have to be an officer, and that means I have to have a degree...and I don't wanna go back to school and get a bloody degree right now!" so they don't even really look into their options..

Also, run a new recruiting campaign focused mostly on the RCAF, the F-35, and that we are looking to hire the "next generation of defenders" with some slick video footage & badass music with lots of drums...sell the idea that they don't need to have completed post secondary to start their journey, etc etc

(FIGHT with the Canadian Forces was a very successful recruiting campaign, back in the day)


Also, get rid of the outdated "no laser eye surgery" rule - if it works fine for the USAF, it'll work fine for us. They fly more often , and in newer jets than we do - we'll be fine (I think?)


Great interview tho! As depressing as it was

 

[dimsum]

Also, get rid of the outdated "no laser eye surgery" rule - if it works fine for the USAF, it'll work fine for us. They fly more often , and in newer jets than we do - we'll be fine (I think?)

We’ve allowed laser eye surgery for years now. Prob over a decade, if not longer, at this point.

As for the degree, there are no lack of Pilot (or other aircrew) applicants. I’ll just caveat that the whole “should Officers need a degree” has been really done to death here, with no satisfactory outcome for either side.

 

[GK .Dundas]

I personally think in spite of what I have already said.., that it's a pretty good ideas.
I just don't think it will happen.