Liberal Minority Government 2021 - ????

[Halifax Tar]

The federal one pays it back to people, so I'm not counting it. I personally get back more than I spend and this will be more so once I get my electric car this year or next.

Except this isnt what Harper or Trudeau have done. Neither of them raised taxes or cut services, did they?

When am I supposed to see a return on the carbon tax thing ?

 

[Brad Sallows]

Harper's government cut a whole bunch of tiny sh!t to bring down spending. (Trudeau's government restored much of it.)

Pennies add up.

 

[Altair]

When am I supposed to see a return on the carbon tax thing ?

If youre in a province that doesnt have a provincial one, tax time.

I get one every year.

 

[Remius]

Harper's government cut a whole bunch of tiny sh!t to bring down spending. (Trudeau's government restored much of it.)

Pennies add up.

Harper’s gvt also effed a lot of that stuff up and wound up costing us more in some cases.

 

[Altair]

Harper's government cut a whole bunch of tiny sh!t to bring down spending. (Trudeau's government restored much of it.)

Pennies add up.

Yet did taxes get raised?

Again, twice in 11 years the government has spent an insane amount of money in response to a crisis, and taxes did not go up either time.

Yet the higher taxes bogeyman gets dragged out time after time

 

[Eaglelord17]

Yet did taxes get raised?

Again, twice in 11 years the government has spent an insane amount of money in response to a crisis, and taxes did not go up either time.

Yet the higher taxes bogeyman gets dragged out time after time

At some point someone has to pay for it all. Usually the cost isn't worth the return. The amount we have spent during this pandemic is staggering, basically doubling our national debt which took over 40 years to create in two years. That isn't sustainable.

A simple example being before Trudeau embarked on all this spending for the Pandemic, our deficit was 35 billion. Our interest payments were about 35 billion. Therefore if we didn't have that debt in the first place we wouldn't have had a deficit and been increasing our debt. We are selling our future for the present and it isn't even buying that much.

All parties need to get a grip on this not just the Liberals.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Whether or not taxes have to go up is situational. Here are a couple of scenarios:

1. You're running a surplus and there's a temporary pinch of revenues coupled with a need for extraordinary spending. You allow the temporary condition to pass and use the resumption of surpluses to cover the excess spending, without cutting transfers or raising taxes.

2. You just say "f*ck it", and spend with the hope that nothing will blow out the deficit, because nothing bad has happened so far.

 

[Altair]

Whether or not taxes have to go up is situational. Here are a couple of scenarios:

1. You're running a surplus and there's a temporary pinch of revenues coupled with a need for extraordinary spending. You allow the temporary condition to pass and use the resumption of surpluses to cover the excess spending, without cutting transfers or raising taxes.

2. You just say "f*ck it", and spend with the hope that nothing will blow out the deficit, because nothing bad has happened so far.

And Canada tends to work in between these two points.

Keep deficits manageable and within line of economic growth.

Its not a surplus sure, but as a percentage of the budget and the economy, 35-40 billion isnt much.

The three things that change this equation are a worse credit rating, and rising interest rates on borrowing and an economic downturn.. The first isnt a big risk, the second might be, and who knows about the third?

That all said, welcome to the west. Its what G7 countries do. The USA has a massive debt. Europe does as well. You need to go to really shitty places like Russia or China to find a government with really low debt loads. I think one of the few exceptions to this is Norway, and thats due to lots a oil and gas revenue with a tiny population.

 

[Altair]

At some point someone has to pay for it all. Usually the cost isn't worth the return. The amount we have spent during this pandemic is staggering, basically doubling our national debt which took over 40 years to create in two years. That isn't sustainable.

A simple example being before Trudeau embarked on all this spending for the Pandemic, our deficit was 35 billion. Our interest payments were about 35 billion. Therefore if we didn't have that debt in the first place we wouldn't have had a deficit and been increasing our debt. We are selling our future for the present and it isn't even buying that much.

All parties need to get a grip on this not just the Liberals.

Its not the parties.

Its what Canadians want.

They are voting for the NDP and LPC knowing full well what spending they want.

The CPC also gave up being fiscally conservative last election. Until canadians prioritize paying down the debt, political parties will continue to push the envelope.

Its likely due to seeing all that spending and no obvious repercussions. Harper spent hundreds of billions, no higher taxes. A few marginal servoce cuts to bring in a balanced budget which allowed Trudeau to come in and say he was willing to defecit spend and suddenly Harper was out and Trudeau was in. Trudeau has not posted a surplus, but again, no higher taxes.

Back when deficits obvious repercussions Canadians seem to have payed more attention to it. How often does the debt/deficit make this list as Canadians top priorities?

 

[Brad Sallows]

35-40 billion isnt much.

Imagine how much health care could be delivered with that money.

 

[Altair]

Imagine how much health care could be delivered with that money.

When Canadians want a government that will address the deficit and debt they will elect one.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Yeah. I always prefer the kind of government elected when people are in a panic. No fun electing moderates who will deal with a problem while it is small.

 

[Altair]

Yeah. I always prefer the kind of government elected when people are in a panic. No fun electing moderates who will deal with a problem while it is small.

Democracy for ya.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Its not the parties.

Its what Canadians want.

They are voting for the NDP and LPC knowing full well what spending they want.

The CPC also gave up being fiscally conservative last election. Until canadians prioritize paying down the debt, political parties will continue to push the envelope.

Its likely due to seeing all that spending and no obvious repercussions. Harper spent hundreds of billions, no higher taxes. A few marginal servoce cuts to bring in a balanced budget which allowed Trudeau to come in and say he was willing to defecit spend and suddenly Harper was out and Trudeau was in. Trudeau has not posted a surplus, but again, no higher taxes.

Back when deficits obvious repercussions Canadians seem to have payed more attention to it. How often does the debt/deficit make this list as Canadians top priorities?

And Canadians aren’t exceptionally responsible. We shall all pay for it in the future, selling our children out for our excesses today.

Also 35 billion is a lot of money, it is 1000$ from every Canadian. The fact you don’t see it as such shows how blind many Canadians are to the debt crisis we are in and how much worse its going to get before it gets better.

 

[Altair]

And Canadians aren’t exceptionally responsible. We shall all pay for it in the future, selling our children out for our excesses today.

Also 35 billion is a lot of money, it is 1000$ from every Canadian. The fact you don’t see it as such shows how blind many Canadians are to the debt crisis we are in and how much worse its going to get before it gets better.

If you say so.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

If you say so.

Really?, So what does that response add to this conversation??

 

[ArmyRick]

How many of you commenting about how "ok" debt is actually own a business? Or like me, an essential business (I grow FOOD and with all of Clueless Trudeau's economic failings, war against oil-gas and carbon tax, its f-ing ridicolous trying to balance our books)

THINK. beyond your own little worlds. We can NOT keep going into debt. Basic law of finances . End story.

 

[Altair]

Really?, So what does that response add to this conversation??

I was ending this particular conversation.

 

[Brad Sallows]

We shall all pay for it in the future

We're paying for it now. Until the most recent spate of deficits, most of the federal debt was based on deficit spending that occurred for roughly a decade from mid-70s to mid-80s. The sum of the operating deficits (actual spending) for that period has since been dwarfed by the accumulated cost of interest. A bit like buying a car priced at $20,000 and paying $200,000 for the financing when all is done, but the actual numbers are larger.

 

[Halifax Tar]

More in the carbon tax from the PBO

'There is going to be a cost': Federal carbon pricing to generate 'net loss' for most households, PBO finds

As the pricing increases, lower income households should continue to receive rebates, but middle- and upper-class households should be expecting to pay…

nationalpost.com